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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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730 for the 2nd of October

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2022 Richard Saunders coming to you from

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Sydney Australia October

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another month another month

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to enjoy if you've downloaded the main

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art calendar at maynard.com you can

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enjoy October with Maynard now there's a

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thought there's a thought what's coming

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up on this week's show we're going to

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kick off with an interview with an old

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friend of mine Claire klingenberg Claire

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klingenberg is the president of the

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European Council of skeptical

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organizations

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and she is a guest speaker this year at

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skepticon 2022 in Canberra the first

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weekend of December

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find out what Claire's going to be

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talking about and a bit of a catch up as

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I interview Claire klingenberg

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following that it's a classic

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bit of the skeptic Zone from six years

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ago take stock with Shelly Stockton a

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wonderful uh reporter who died sadly not

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so long ago but she left us a wealth of

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wonderful reports and they're always

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worth hearing again from 2016 does

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naturopathy work the truth about natural

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medicine then we have an update from our

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friends at the center for inquiry in the

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United States about their continuing

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battle with homeopathy

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specifically the battle against Walmart

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and CVS Pharmacies for selling

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Homeopathy on their shelves

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then closer to home news from New South

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Wales about the uh New South Wales

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Health Watchdog being given powers to

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shut down alternative health clinics

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including naturopaths and chiropractors

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for not complying with its code of

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conduct

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then to round off the show back into the

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Trove archives

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in a way

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and we hand it over to Adrian hill our

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reporter from Canada who this week looks

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at ghosts or her favorite topic oh yes

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her favorite topic ghost stories from

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Canada in the digital News archives and

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a big shout out to all those people out

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there who have just finished their

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holidays

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some people had a holiday over the last

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week or so here in Australia and uh well

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after the long weekend it's a long

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weekend here in Australia uh Monday is a

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holiday for Labor Day some people will

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be heading back to work so certainly

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thinking about you and I really hope I

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really hope you had a good break but now

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it's time for me to run downstairs and

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break a few eggs

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yes fried eggs on toast scrambled eggs

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maybe Poached Eggs how do you like your

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eggs put a salt bit of pepper while I do

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that I hope you enjoy the skeptic Zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now just near Prague what

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a beautiful city Prague is I've been

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there a couple of times over the year

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over the years it's Claire klingenberg

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hello Claire hi nice to see you and talk

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like we are through the magic of the

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internet we're looking at each other I

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suppose it's not such a big deal these

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days but I'm old enough to remember when

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video conferencing just wasn't a thing I

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I think I don't know if it's a question

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of age I've been traveling between

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Europe and the US my whole life but I'm

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still shocked or just weirded out when I

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wake up in Prague and I go to sleep in

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the U.S like it's just so bizarre

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or you know you get on the plane in the

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US and you and then you like wake up in

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Prague the next morning it's it's

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strange well I mean I've been doing that

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between the United States and Australia

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for many many years yeah every time I

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agree and the jet lag is horrible and

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it's still very strange now Claire we

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had talking about the United States the

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last time we saw each other I'm sure was

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in New York

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I'm sure true yeah yes a Nexus at Nexus

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and I think I'm I mean that was the last

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time I had the pleasure of seeing James

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Randy I don't know about you well we saw

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each other at the Nexus in 2017. so then

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I saw him

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uh I had Nexus in 2018 I think right

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right and so I think that that was the

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last time I've seen him in person yeah

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still hard to believe he's he's not

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there if we go to a skeptical convention

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somewhere it's almost like we expect to

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see Randy walking around the corner and

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bending spoons and making things

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disappear

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yeah I remember when we invited him to

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Prague and to come and speak at the

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Europeans with this Congress and That

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Was Then in Poland uh I had the pleasure

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of just like spending an evening with

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him just the two of us and

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um I was aware that like the next day

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he's gonna have all these interviews and

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all these people there so I didn't want

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to like Badger him with all my questions

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uh so I was just kind of talking about

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all kinds of things and we just we had

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like goulash in a chick restaurant and

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everything and then he started like

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doing magic tricks I did not ask him to

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do that but it was so nice and I still I

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still had the napkin on which he wrote

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uh the word from a random check book I

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picked up from a bookshelf behind me and

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so I still have that in some really nice

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unique souvenir to have that's wonderful

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certainly one of my strongest memories

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of James Randy and this has got nothing

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to do with why I called you but who

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cares was um any time I'd have dinner

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with Randy or where to start social

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event all he needed was a table and an

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audience and boom he was gone he was

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card tricks and making things disappear

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in the book trick and he would do it for

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hours and yeah

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it's yeah we we really do miss uh James

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the amazing Randy but talking about

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seeing people at conventions and being

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at conventions of course I'm chatting to

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you because you're going to be appearing

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here in Australia in December at the

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Australian Skeptics National Convention

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what can you tell us about what you'll

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be talking about I am so excited I can't

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wait

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um I'm going to be talking about the

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role of skepticism in the changed World

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about how the skeptic movement has

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changed and developed uh how it's kind

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of changed its topics and hit its areas

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of interests uh and widen them and also

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how our approach as Skeptics has changed

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to how we deal with the public or how we

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deal amongst ourselves uh and also type

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of people that are in the skeptic

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movement how that has changed throughout

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the times and I'm also very excited to

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learn about the Australian skeptic

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movement because I've never been to

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Australia before or and I know only a

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few Australian Skeptics to yourself of

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course Iran and now uh Kevin Davies and

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that's pretty much it oh wow so I look

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forward to meeting a lot lots and lots

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of more Australian Skeptics and finding

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out what it is that makes Australian

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skepticism different and unique ooh I

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think that's something you'll just have

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to discover for yourself I'm not sure

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good question sometimes I wonder that

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myself but what a good topic it is

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because yes of course it's changed it's

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change a great deal even in the 20 years

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I've been involved there are different

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topics come up more important topics

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maybe we could say they're more

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important topics when I first joined it

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was still

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um you know lots of classic topics which

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are still important but but not so

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common anymore uh common anymore like

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the UFOs and the monsters and things

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like that and over the years I've

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noticed it certainly

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our our Focus has been more and more

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drawn to Consumer Affairs and dangerous

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alternative medicines and things like

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that but it's a very very wide topic

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sure and not just that also for example

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in Europe the question uh of nuclear

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energy that's a very important topic for

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the skeptic movement as well because

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there's so much misinformation and so

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much emotional base decisions regarding

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that

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um and of course then the question of uh

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Agriculture and for example just like

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glysulfate and the conspiracies around

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that not just you know GMOs so

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um yeah we really had to broaden our

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Horizons and broaden our expertise and

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bring in new people from areas that we

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never really kind of thought of as

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um areas we would be interested as

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before but on the other hand I think it

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kind of has taught us that skepticism is

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universally applicable to any topic you

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can imagine yeah absolutely and and I

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like the fact that there are new topics

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and things we can tackle because we

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can't be forever Chasing UFOs as as fun

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as that is we can't do that forever sure

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now Claire you of course you're the uh

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the president of the European Council of

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skeptical organizations that's a very

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Grand title what does that mean

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oh

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um the skeptical bureaucrat

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um meaning that I I try

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um with various uh degrees of excess of

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success

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um to facilitate communication amongst

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Skeptics uh all across Europe and to

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kind of pay attention to various Trends

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in various countries and see how

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um we can kind of help each other out

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because we

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are divided by language and geography

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but we are uh United in what interests

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us in our values uh and it's sometimes

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almost a waste of time and money if

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there's a group working on something

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that some other group has already worked

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on but and there's an unfortunate amount

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of miscommunication or just no

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communication because we don't know that

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other groups are working at that same

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thing so

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um I try to kind of uh pay attention to

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interesting projects going on

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interesting personalities interests who

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are working on certain topics and themes

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and bring everyone together wow that

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sounds like a good job it sounds like

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something which is really really

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interesting because the people you would

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meet the people you would talk to

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including our good friends at the the

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ESP the podcast and who will also be

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here in Australia folks if you haven't

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got your tickets for skepticon 2022 in

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Canberra the the beginning of December

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just follow the link in this week's show

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notes you'll have the opportunity to

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meet all sorts of fascinating people

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including Claire klingenberg and Claire

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if people wanted to uh check out what

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you do what's a good website they can

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visit they can check out my social media

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I because I am building 1A mainly invest

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in Prague

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um I generally use Twitter for my

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English content and uh Facebook half and

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half and then uh Instagram is mainly in

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check but you're free to check that out

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as well and you can also go to my

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website clear k.com where there's a mix

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of Czech in English content excellent

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folks I'll add a link to that in this

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week's show notes

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Claire klingenberg thank you very much

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thank you

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[Music]

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the Australian Skeptics annual National

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Convention skepticon 2022 will be held

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on December 3rd through 4th the first

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weekend of December go to the ticket

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sales page at skepticon.org dot a u to

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00:13:00,280 --> 00:12:57,839
choose full in person one day in person

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or streaming options

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[Music]

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the event will be held at the National

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Library of Australia the theme is

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skepticism in a changed world and the

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lineup of speakers includes Claire

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klingenberg president of the European

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Council of skeptical organizations the

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hosts of European Skeptics podcast and

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live stream Talks by skeptic's Guide to

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the universe host Dr Steven Novella and

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skiptoid host Brian Dunning

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there is also a wide variety of domestic

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speakers including Major General Mike

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Ryan retired who will be speaking on

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science fiction and Security

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Professionals author David dufte on

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radio girl act Academy of sports

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psychologist Christine Dunn on

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superstitions in sport controversial

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author Clive Hamilton on being censored

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and many more scientific and skeptical

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00:14:01,570 --> 00:13:59,360
topics for full details visit

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00:14:19,449 --> 00:14:01,580
skepticon.org dot a u

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00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:22,069
now over the past year or so we've been

316
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:25,260
bringing you the story of the center for

317
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inquiry and their legal action against

318
00:14:33,530 --> 00:14:30,079
the giant

319
00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:33,540
U.S department store Walmart and the

320
00:14:41,389 --> 00:14:37,380
pharmacy CVS over those institutions

321
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:41,399
those Outlets selling homeopathy

322
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,220
few months ago we had an update and now

323
00:14:49,689 --> 00:14:47,040
here's another update and this was via

324
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:49,699
email from the center for inquiry

325
00:14:54,829 --> 00:14:52,440
Homeopathy on trial Center for inquiry

326
00:14:58,189 --> 00:14:54,839
suits against Walmart and CVS on

327
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:58,199
Consumer Fraud allowed to proceed and it

328
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,180
says great news we are going to get our

329
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:02,639
day in court on Thursday a three-judge

330
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,060
panel in the DC court of appeals reverse

331
00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:08,639
the dismissal of Suits the center for

332
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:10,620
inquiry brought against will mutton CVS

333
00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:14,160
over claims that they deceived customers

334
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:16,740
by marketing fake medicine as if it were

335
00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:19,220
real Walmart and Sevilla shelve

336
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:21,720
homeopathic products alongside real

337
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:24,720
medicine this placement is deceptive to

338
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:27,420
Consumers who can easily confuse it for

339
00:15:31,569 --> 00:15:29,639
scientifically tested products that

340
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:31,579
provably work

341
00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:35,279
which they are not the center for

342
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:38,100
inquiry suits have been dismissed by two

343
00:15:43,850 --> 00:15:41,100
lower DC courts but yesterday in a

344
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:43,860
unanimous opinion written by senior

345
00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:46,680
judge Phyllis d Thompson the appeals

346
00:15:53,230 --> 00:15:48,300
court ruled that the placement of

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00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,240
products on a store shelf does in fact

348
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:55,800
communicate information to the consumers

349
00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:00,000
that they can rely upon and be deceived

350
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:05,160
by and if we scoot over to the Center

351
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:07,620
for inquiries website there's more on

352
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,760
this

353
00:16:14,269 --> 00:16:10,800
score one for the good guys a major

354
00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:14,279
battle won in the continuing war on

355
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:16,740
Homeopathy fraud and this is by Nick

356
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,420
little I'll read some of this and we've

357
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:21,120
interviewed Nick a little on the show

358
00:16:27,410 --> 00:16:24,240
before under the title reality versus

359
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:27,420
Bloody nonsense

360
00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:30,360
opposing pseudoscience is consumer

361
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:32,279
protection we at the center for inquiry

362
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:34,980
know that you know that and finally the

363
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,500
DC court of appeals has recognized that

364
00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:38,639
as well

365
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,740
it has been a long time since I argued

366
00:16:44,749 --> 00:16:42,480
the center for inquiries case in front

367
00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:44,759
of the DC court of appeals in January

368
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:47,399
and an even longer time since we first

369
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:51,480
briefed the appeals in both CFI versus

370
00:16:59,210 --> 00:16:56,399
CVS and see if I versus Walmart even by

371
00:17:02,090 --> 00:16:59,220
the glacial speed standards of a legal

372
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:02,100
system it has been a long delay but this

373
00:17:07,370 --> 00:17:04,380
morning finally we got what we've been

374
00:17:10,669 --> 00:17:07,380
waiting for the appeals court reversed

375
00:17:14,329 --> 00:17:10,679
and remanded the dismissal by the trial

376
00:17:15,650 --> 00:17:14,339
courts of our claims and we can now go

377
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:15,660
forward

378
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,419
you can read the decision here and they

379
00:17:24,289 --> 00:17:21,360
provide a link there are two key points

380
00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:24,299
to the decision the first is on standing

381
00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:27,900
the trial courts decided that CFI Center

382
00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:30,059
for inquiry wasn't a Consumer Protection

383
00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:32,100
Organization because although we have

384
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:33,900
Decades of history of work against

385
00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:36,660
pseudoscience that work was theoretical

386
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:39,480
not consumer protection according to the

387
00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:41,460
lower courts we just wanted to show that

388
00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:44,460
Homeopathy and Reiki healing and

389
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,919
acupuncture and so on is bunk when

390
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:49,440
that's that the appeals court though

391
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,200
rejected this it recognized that quote

392
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:54,720
Center for inquiries Mission driven

393
00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:56,880
opposition to Homeopathy as a

394
00:18:01,610 --> 00:17:59,340
pseudoscience and Center for inquiries

395
00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:01,620
efforts to remove homeopathic drugs from

396
00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:04,140
the market show that at least in part

397
00:18:09,770 --> 00:18:06,840
Center for inquiry both is organized and

398
00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:09,780
operates to promote the interests of

399
00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:12,600
those who would be consumers of

400
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:15,179
ineffective homeopathic products end

401
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:19,559
quote answers here this is a really big

402
00:18:25,789 --> 00:18:23,160
deal had it gone the other way a whole

403
00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:25,799
litigation campaign against Homeopathy

404
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:28,260
would have been hobbled

405
00:18:35,049 --> 00:18:32,640
CFI use of this DC law to challenge

406
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:35,059
retailers and manufacturers depends

407
00:18:40,669 --> 00:18:38,220
unsurprisingly on the courts allowing us

408
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,679
to do so I will link to this page in

409
00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:42,720
this week's show notes it goes on a bit

410
00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:46,440
longer and towards the end it says the

411
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:49,080
war still has a long way to go but this

412
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:52,320
battle has ended in a major victory it's

413
00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:55,500
likely I think that both defendants will

414
00:19:00,110 --> 00:18:57,900
want to talk more seriously about a

415
00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:00,120
settlement and how they can avoid having

416
00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:02,820
to defend how they sell products they

417
00:19:09,770 --> 00:19:06,660
know are worthless in front of a jury if

418
00:19:12,830 --> 00:19:09,780
they don't provide a real impactful

419
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:12,840
change to their behavior then the case

420
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:15,240
will continue you can follow all our

421
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:18,059
work in this area on the website for the

422
00:19:22,730 --> 00:19:19,860
office of consumer protection from

423
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:22,740
pseudoscience and there's a link and

424
00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:25,980
there's a lot happening boy Ron and

425
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,660
we've covered boyron before on the

426
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,760
skeptic Zone that's a homeopathic

427
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:32,220
manufacturer in the United States boyron

428
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:34,980
the world's largest manufacturer of

429
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:37,620
Homeopathy has officially answered our

430
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,720
complaint and there's another link

431
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,000
spoiler alert they disagree with our

432
00:19:46,610 --> 00:19:43,919
claims

433
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:46,620
what a shock and the trial court has

434
00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:49,500
established a schedule for Discovery and

435
00:19:56,590 --> 00:19:52,140
motions in the case we've also sent

436
00:19:59,150 --> 00:19:56,600
letters to both amazon.com and Chewie

437
00:20:01,549 --> 00:19:59,160
c-h-e-w-y I'm not sure what that is it's

438
00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:01,559
something new to me what is that chewy

439
00:20:06,409 --> 00:20:05,160
and that appears to be an online pet

440
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:06,419
store

441
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:08,760
for dog food cat food and pet

442
00:20:14,029 --> 00:20:11,520
accessories okay and we pick it up and

443
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:14,039
chewy uh challenging the ways in which

444
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,900
they recommend and promote homeopathic

445
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,240
remedies for humans and animals

446
00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:20,880
we're waiting on their responses there's

447
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:23,580
much more work to be done but for today

448
00:20:30,049 --> 00:20:27,120
we're enjoying being able to celebrate a

449
00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:30,059
win cheers Nicholas little

450
00:20:35,210 --> 00:20:32,100
a good news story coming out of the

451
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:35,220
center for inquiry on the the ongoing as

452
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:37,740
they say the war against Homeopathy and

453
00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:39,539
it's a good win there for Consumer

454
00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:41,880
Protection

455
00:20:45,169 --> 00:20:44,039
again you can read more about this

456
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,179
update

457
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:47,280
by following the links in this week's

458
00:21:03,590 --> 00:20:47,770
show notes

459
00:21:07,610 --> 00:21:05,750
around 10 percent of Australians have

460
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:07,620
seen a naturopath for one reason or

461
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:08,700
another

462
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,760
chances are you someone you know or that

463
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:13,679
person over there have visited a

464
00:21:18,370 --> 00:21:16,080
naturopath in the last year but

465
00:21:20,810 --> 00:21:18,380
popularity isn't everything

466
00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:20,820
recent reports of a Sydney naturopath

467
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:22,860
allegedly endangering the life of the

468
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:25,620
baby the son of a naturopath shunning

469
00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:27,660
radiotherapy for alternative therapies

470
00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:29,940
and a disgraced Gold Coast doctor

471
00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:31,740
turning to naturopathy rather than

472
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,140
maintaining her registration raise the

473
00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:36,240
question what's the deal with

474
00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:37,500
naturopathy

475
00:21:42,890 --> 00:21:40,020
[Music]

476
00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:42,900
so what is naturopathy anyway trying to

477
00:21:46,490 --> 00:21:45,000
explain naturopathy is like trying to

478
00:21:48,770 --> 00:21:46,500
draw a sound

479
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,780
there's no definitive method technique

480
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:51,120
or remedy that you can point to and say

481
00:21:56,330 --> 00:21:54,000
that's naturopathy it comprises an

482
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,340
astounding array of Concepts centered

483
00:22:00,649 --> 00:21:58,080
around the idea that Health can be

484
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:00,659
maintained without surgery or drugs by

485
00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:02,960
enabling your body to heal itself

486
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,820
naturopathy can include herbal vitamin

487
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:08,280
and mineral supplements dietary advice

488
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:11,039
massage therapy Homeopathy reflexology

489
00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:14,159
Kinesiology and many other approaches to

490
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:15,960
Optimum Wellness

491
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:17,700
rather than struggling with what

492
00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:20,400
naturopathy is it might be easier to

493
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:21,990
Define what naturopathy isn't

494
00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:24,260
[Music]

495
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:27,539
naturopathy isn't medicine

496
00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:29,280
one of the major draw cards of

497
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:31,220
naturopathy to those who are wary

498
00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:33,720
disillusioned or downright terrified of

499
00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:36,179
doctors is that it provides a natural

500
00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:38,940
alternative to modern medicine

501
00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:40,740
But It's tricky to ditch medicine

502
00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:43,320
without also discarding important things

503
00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:45,900
like standardized ethics and scientific

504
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:46,919
evidence

505
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,380
medicine represents the culmination of

506
00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:51,440
scientific knowledge over many lifetimes

507
00:22:56,270 --> 00:22:53,700
constantly strengthening and correcting

508
00:22:58,669 --> 00:22:56,280
itself with data measurement controlled

509
00:23:00,890 --> 00:22:58,679
testing and published studies

510
00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:00,900
naturopathy represents centuries of

511
00:23:06,169 --> 00:23:03,240
traditional folklore ancient wisdom

512
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:06,179
plants and a decent smattering of pan

513
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,150
flutes

514
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,080
[Music]

515
00:23:14,930 --> 00:23:13,440
even naturopathy isn't naturopathy

516
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:14,940
when you see a registered Health

517
00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:17,220
practitioner you can assume you'll have

518
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:19,620
more or less the same experience as you

519
00:23:24,169 --> 00:23:21,179
would with a different registered Health

520
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:24,179
practitioner of the same persuasion

521
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:26,820
there might be some variation in quality

522
00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:30,419
manner price and waiting room decor but

523
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:32,039
you'll generally get the same bang for

524
00:23:35,049 --> 00:23:33,360
your buck with one doctor or

525
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:35,059
psychologist that you would with another

526
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:38,880
the thing is unlike GPS physios

527
00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:41,940
orthopedic surgeons dentists Pharmacists

528
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:44,340
and nurses naturopathy isn't

529
00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:47,640
standardized or independently regulated

530
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,559
there has been a gradual push for the

531
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,360
regulation of naturopaths in Australia

532
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,760
for several years but little agreement

533
00:23:57,950 --> 00:23:55,440
between the industry's professional

534
00:24:00,649 --> 00:23:57,960
associations about what standards

535
00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:00,659
naturopathy should adhere to as a result

536
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:02,940
your naturopath could be a University

537
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:05,220
graduate giving out solid nutritional

538
00:24:09,649 --> 00:24:07,860
advice or a bored housewife with a

539
00:24:11,270 --> 00:24:09,659
massage table giving out sugar pills and

540
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,280
liver failure

541
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,919
in Australia both can legally call

542
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:16,080
themselves naturopath and charge you

543
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:16,650
money

544
00:24:21,549 --> 00:24:18,840
[Music]

545
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:21,559
is naturopathy natural

546
00:24:26,270 --> 00:24:23,700
naturopathy is all about keeping

547
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:26,280
Healthcare As Natural as possible

548
00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:28,500
but is that always a good thing Mother

549
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,600
Nature can be a cruel old at the

550
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:32,880
best of times anyone who's ever had a

551
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:34,980
broken rib or a face-eating virus can

552
00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:37,440
tell you that or mime it in the absence

553
00:24:42,049 --> 00:24:40,020
of a face of course nature gives us

554
00:24:44,029 --> 00:24:42,059
lovely things too like fresh fruit and

555
00:24:46,669 --> 00:24:44,039
vegetables we just have to know which

556
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,679
ones won't kill us navigating The Perils

557
00:24:51,169 --> 00:24:48,480
of nature is difficult

558
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:51,179
luckily one group of people has done the

559
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:53,580
hard work for us testing nature to

560
00:24:58,430 --> 00:24:56,159
determine what can heal us and kill us

561
00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:58,440
in what amount and when

562
00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:00,360
that group of people is known as

563
00:25:03,710 --> 00:25:01,870
scientists

564
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,720
[Music]

565
00:25:07,789 --> 00:25:05,760
does naturopathy work

566
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:07,799
an Australian government review of

567
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:11,220
alternative Therapies in 2015 found no

568
00:25:14,330 --> 00:25:13,020
clear evidence of Effectiveness for

569
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:14,340
naturopathy

570
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:16,260
however with so many different

571
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:18,360
practitioners treatments and approaches

572
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:20,700
huddled under one umbrella it doesn't

573
00:25:26,450 --> 00:25:23,100
seem fair to say that naturopathy as a

574
00:25:29,149 --> 00:25:26,460
whole is effective or ineffective some

575
00:25:30,590 --> 00:25:29,159
naturopathic recommendations like eating

576
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:30,600
fresh vegetables and getting enough

577
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,820
sleep a scientifically proven

578
00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:34,440
no-brainers

579
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:37,400
others like Homeopathy and coffee enemas

580
00:25:42,409 --> 00:25:40,320
rely on outdated concepts of human

581
00:25:43,690 --> 00:25:42,419
health and have woefully inadequate

582
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,700
evidence to back them up

583
00:25:48,169 --> 00:25:46,080
[Music]

584
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:48,179
is naturopathy safe

585
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:50,220
yes and no

586
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:52,020
no treatment with a measurable effect

587
00:25:57,230 --> 00:25:54,480
can be a hundred percent safe

588
00:25:59,390 --> 00:25:57,240
in medicine naturopathy or any other

589
00:26:01,070 --> 00:25:59,400
health modality a worthwhile

590
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:01,080
practitioner will consider the relative

591
00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:02,940
risk and benefit of a therapy before

592
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:04,980
offering it a common danger of

593
00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:06,299
naturopathic remedies and

594
00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:08,580
recommendations whether they work or not

595
00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:11,460
is that they are commonly undertaken in

596
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:14,039
place of proven Medical Treatments

597
00:26:18,529 --> 00:26:16,440
some naturopaths advise customers to

598
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:18,539
forego other treatments stop taking

599
00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:21,210
medications or avoid vaccination

600
00:26:26,769 --> 00:26:23,580
[Music]

601
00:26:28,669 --> 00:26:26,779
when naturopathy turns bad

602
00:26:31,970 --> 00:26:28,679
naturopaths put themselves in a position

603
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,980
that says I can look after you a lot of

604
00:26:35,570 --> 00:26:33,600
them take that position very seriously

605
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:35,580
care deeply about the quality of their

606
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,220
work and practice within their skill set

607
00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:40,559
then there are the irresponsible dodgy

608
00:26:45,769 --> 00:26:43,260
Cowboys who abuse the trust and respect

609
00:26:47,870 --> 00:26:45,779
of their customers abandon their duty of

610
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,880
care and cause harm with their lack of

611
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:49,919
scientific knowledge

612
00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:53,039
in an unregulated industry it's hard to

613
00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:55,980
choose a good naturopath over a bad one

614
00:26:59,570 --> 00:26:57,720
indeed some customers have only

615
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,580
discovered the consequences of their

616
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:01,679
choice after their cancer has become

617
00:27:06,350 --> 00:27:03,900
untreatable so here's my free

618
00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:06,360
unqualified advice

619
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:09,990
better work less see a doctor

620
00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:17,720
[Music]

621
00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:20,820
this skeptic the journal from Australian

622
00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:23,640
Skeptics subscribe online to the world's

623
00:27:27,850 --> 00:27:25,980
second oldest skeptical magazine

624
00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:27,860
just visit

625
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:29,480
www.skeptics.com

626
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:33,120
and click the Magazine Link there you

627
00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:35,460
will also find free to download almost

628
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:39,240
40 Years of back issues the skeptic the

629
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:40,919
journal from Australian Skeptics

630
00:27:48,930 --> 00:27:43,740
available as a physical copy or as a

631
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:54,190
[Music]

632
00:28:01,930 --> 00:27:56,640
thank you

633
00:28:08,169 --> 00:28:04,990
that came to my attention because I was

634
00:28:12,769 --> 00:28:08,179
checking out the Australian Skeptics

635
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,779
Facebook page Facebook posting where the

636
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:15,360
Australian Skeptics put up news and bits

637
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,000
and pieces of interest and this is a

638
00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:20,159
report in the the newspaper the Sydney

639
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:21,900
Morning Herald

640
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:24,539
they did the 23rd of September by Mary

641
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:25,679
Ward

642
00:28:30,409 --> 00:28:28,020
and I'll give you an overview of what it

643
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:30,419
says Alternative Health Clinics that

644
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:34,080
don't comply with code of conduct face

645
00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:35,460
closure

646
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:37,620
the state's Health Watchdog has been

647
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:39,240
given the power to shut Alternative

648
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:42,059
Health Clinics including naturopaths and

649
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:44,039
chiropractors for not complying with its

650
00:28:48,350 --> 00:28:46,679
code of conduct as data shows an

651
00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:48,360
increasing number of complaints being

652
00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:49,980
made by patients

653
00:28:54,409 --> 00:28:52,260
powers that came into effect this month

654
00:28:57,289 --> 00:28:54,419
expand the role of the health care

655
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,299
complaints commission H Triple C to

656
00:29:02,810 --> 00:29:00,000
allow it to issue a Prohibition order

657
00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:02,820
against an entire Clinic rather than

658
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:05,700
just an offending practitioner

659
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:08,100
New South Wales Health Minister Brad

660
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:11,279
Hazard said the new rules part of the

661
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:14,159
public health regulation 2022 would

662
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,500
better protect patients in a growing

663
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:18,720
area of health services

664
00:29:24,590 --> 00:29:22,320
quote these changes enabled the H Triple

665
00:29:27,289 --> 00:29:24,600
C to use their powers to prohibit health

666
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:27,299
organizations from operating where they

667
00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:29,460
pose a risk to the health or safety of

668
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,220
the public and quote he said

669
00:29:37,970 --> 00:29:34,799
quote this is an important additional

670
00:29:39,889 --> 00:29:37,980
step that enables the hccc to take firm

671
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,899
action to protect the community from

672
00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:42,480
health organizations which flout the

673
00:29:47,389 --> 00:29:44,940
rules and do not provide services in a

674
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:47,399
safe and ethical way end quote

675
00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:50,220
now I'll just break in here to say

676
00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:52,140
20 years ago

677
00:29:55,310 --> 00:29:54,600
if I remember correctly and there's a

678
00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:55,320
video

679
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:57,480
on the YouTube channel of Australian

680
00:30:01,250 --> 00:29:59,399
Skeptics 20 years ago

681
00:30:03,289 --> 00:30:01,260
I went to a press conference at the New

682
00:30:06,049 --> 00:30:03,299
South Wales State Parliament

683
00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:06,059
and I was with all the the media and I

684
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:08,220
videoed the press conference

685
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:11,220
where the health minister of the day

686
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:14,399
produced a range of quack devices on the

687
00:30:18,529 --> 00:30:15,899
table before him

688
00:30:20,590 --> 00:30:18,539
and said how he wants to ban these

689
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:20,600
ridiculous quack devices

690
00:30:26,990 --> 00:30:24,480
and 20 years later

691
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:27,000
many of these crack devices are still in

692
00:30:31,130 --> 00:30:28,140
use so

693
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,140
we shall see what happens with this move

694
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,120
it goes on while individual

695
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:35,520
practitioners are already required to

696
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:38,580
abide by a state code of conduct the new

697
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:40,740
regulation introduced a similar code

698
00:30:45,710 --> 00:30:43,799
requiring infectious control processes

699
00:30:49,010 --> 00:30:45,720
as well as duties to operate in a safe

700
00:30:52,250 --> 00:30:49,020
and ethical way for health organizations

701
00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:52,260
I'll break in again and I'll say I

702
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:53,940
wonder if that means

703
00:30:59,149 --> 00:30:56,340
that people in naturopath clinics and

704
00:31:00,769 --> 00:30:59,159
chiropractic clinics and homeopaths and

705
00:31:02,269 --> 00:31:00,779
Etc who deal with the public who deal

706
00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:02,279
with children

707
00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:04,740
are required to be vaccinated

708
00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:06,779
that would be interesting vaccination

709
00:31:12,110 --> 00:31:10,860
against uh well primarily covid-19 plus

710
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:12,120
boosters

711
00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:16,320
later on it says in 2020 to 2021 the

712
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:18,419
Watchdog undertook investigations into

713
00:31:24,529 --> 00:31:22,260
50 such practitioners about a tenth of

714
00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:24,539
its total workload it received more than

715
00:31:28,130 --> 00:31:26,520
300 complaints about unregistered

716
00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:28,140
practitioners

717
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:31,260
the Watchdog said this rise was quote

718
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:32,940
driven largely by an increase in

719
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:35,279
complaints relating to the professional

720
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:38,700
conduct of massage therapists assistance

721
00:31:43,549 --> 00:31:41,399
in nursing and counselors when compared

722
00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:43,559
to previous years end quote

723
00:31:48,529 --> 00:31:45,779
CEO of the Australian patients

724
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:48,539
Association Stephen Mason said its

725
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,460
organization recognized alternative

726
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:53,039
medicine as an important offering in the

727
00:31:57,289 --> 00:31:54,720
health space

728
00:32:01,250 --> 00:31:57,299
quote but of course there are charlatans

729
00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:01,260
and Rogues in every industry but in the

730
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,500
last year of two it says we have seen

731
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,200
that with the various issues with

732
00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:09,720
cosmetic surgery and quote he said he

733
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:11,940
said Alternative Health organizations

734
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:14,880
quote shouldn't be outside the scope end

735
00:32:18,830 --> 00:32:17,580
quote of the Watchdog and praised the

736
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:18,840
reform

737
00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:22,140
now it's interesting to see that if we

738
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,880
go back to the Australian Skeptics

739
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,640
Facebook posting and I'll add a link to

740
00:32:30,289 --> 00:32:28,320
the Australian Skeptics Facebook page in

741
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:30,299
the show notes we have a comment

742
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:33,059
somebody has made a comment here about

743
00:32:37,970 --> 00:32:35,340
this posting

744
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:37,980
that would be par for the course for a

745
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:40,380
health spokesman does not know the

746
00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:43,440
difference between his ass or his elbow

747
00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:46,340
or for that matter bacteria or a virus

748
00:32:53,389 --> 00:32:49,860
obviously a micron and a nanometer are

749
00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:53,399
well beyond his comprehension just as is

750
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,980
the means of use a surgical mask

751
00:33:02,750 --> 00:32:58,559
designed to stop bacteria has little

752
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:02,760
chance of arresting a virus morons total

753
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,480
and utter morons every one of um

754
00:33:11,930 --> 00:33:09,600
well that's a very uh insightful and

755
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:11,940
deep comment made there

756
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:13,980
we might be tempted to reply to that

757
00:33:20,269 --> 00:33:17,039
along the lines of please restrict

758
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:20,279
yourself to not using ad hominem attacks

759
00:33:27,049 --> 00:33:24,779
but I've got a strange feeling that this

760
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,059
poster is a proponent of alternative

761
00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:30,000
medicine so I don't think an argument

762
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,340
with them would go very far

763
00:33:36,649 --> 00:33:34,559
May differ in your opinion

764
00:33:38,590 --> 00:33:36,659
well needless to say we'll keep an eye

765
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:38,600
on this situation and see if any

766
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:42,059
practitioners or clinics or whatever are

767
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:45,360
prosecuted or at least investigated

768
00:33:50,509 --> 00:33:47,820
I know my friends Ken McLeod and Ken

769
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:50,519
Harvey will be very interested in this

770
00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:52,500
story indeed

771
00:34:00,250 --> 00:33:54,299
for more on this story check out the

772
00:34:19,129 --> 00:34:16,389
[Music]

773
00:34:21,950 --> 00:34:19,139
hello this is Adrian Hill from Canada

774
00:34:23,950 --> 00:34:21,960
looking into historical articles not

775
00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:23,960
from Trove this time but from

776
00:34:30,109 --> 00:34:26,700
newspaperarchive.com and newspapers.com

777
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,119
about one of my favorite topics as you

778
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:32,159
know ghosts

779
00:34:37,310 --> 00:34:35,700
and more importantly Canadian ghosts now

780
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:37,320
the first article I'm going to read is

781
00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:39,960
from page three of the Calgary albertan

782
00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:44,700
on June 22nd 1912. author unknown and

783
00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:48,179
the article is called City Hall is

784
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:56,270
[Music]

785
00:35:02,570 --> 00:34:59,750
City Hall is haunted in it there is some

786
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,580
unseen monster a ghost or spook A

787
00:35:07,130 --> 00:35:05,040
specter ogre or something dire and

788
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:07,140
Dreadful which fights against the

789
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:09,000
Commissioners whom we have elected and

790
00:35:14,329 --> 00:35:11,099
forces them to do stranger and Terrible

791
00:35:16,970 --> 00:35:14,339
Things quite against their own wishes

792
00:35:19,609 --> 00:35:16,980
if the albertan ever insinuated by word

793
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:19,619
written or spoken by thought even or

794
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,660
printed picture that commissioner Clark

795
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:24,000
was the man in command who was ruling

796
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:25,920
things with a high hand at the city hall

797
00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:28,740
it desires to get down upon its these in

798
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:31,020
Humble fashion and apologize to its

799
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,980
readers for it all seems to be a mistake

800
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:36,960
commissioner Clark appeared before the

801
00:35:41,390 --> 00:35:39,060
commission on Wednesday and we find that

802
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:41,400
he is the mildest mannered man that ever

803
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:44,520
scuttled ship or sat in City Commission

804
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:47,940
he does not run the city hall he does

805
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:50,400
not desire to run the city hall he does

806
00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:53,339
not even have a faint Ray of ambition in

807
00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:55,500
his Noble breast to make an impression

808
00:36:00,109 --> 00:35:57,420
upon City Hall affairs

809
00:36:02,810 --> 00:36:00,119
not only does he have no desire or

810
00:36:05,210 --> 00:36:02,820
remote wish to control but it seems upon

811
00:36:08,329 --> 00:36:05,220
his own statement that he is the victim

812
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:08,339
of some cruel domination from some Force

813
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,000
name and description unknown within the

814
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:14,160
city walls

815
00:36:18,589 --> 00:36:16,260
mistakes have been made in Municipal

816
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:18,599
matters mistakes both in policy and

817
00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:21,720
performance and all because this unseen

818
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:24,780
Force this sort of ghost existence that

819
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,320
no person can place his hands upon

820
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:30,660
the market building grew to full stature

821
00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:32,700
in ugliness and uselessness with

822
00:36:36,650 --> 00:36:34,680
commissioner Clark perpetually and

823
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,660
persistently remonstrating

824
00:36:41,329 --> 00:36:38,400
who is responsible

825
00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:41,339
commissioner Clark does not know

826
00:36:46,130 --> 00:36:44,280
no person knows

827
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,140
it was the same with the gross and

828
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:48,000
criminal neglect of the isolation

829
00:36:54,349 --> 00:36:50,940
hospital it was the same with any other

830
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,359
subject which has led to criticism

831
00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:56,400
the Commissioners were battling with the

832
00:37:01,849 --> 00:36:59,160
Unseen Force this sort of demon unknown

833
00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:01,859
and unperceived

834
00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:04,260
this leads us to believe that without

835
00:37:09,890 --> 00:37:07,320
doubt the city hall is haunted there is

836
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:09,900
something uncanny about it for instance

837
00:37:14,270 --> 00:37:12,420
it seems that every one of the

838
00:37:16,970 --> 00:37:14,280
Commissioners objected to certain

839
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:16,980
increases in salaries and yet this ghost

840
00:37:21,410 --> 00:37:19,500
or spook or something like that wrestled

841
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:21,420
with the three of them for three months

842
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:23,880
and forced them to compromise

843
00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:26,160
to live in a city which has a city hall

844
00:37:31,069 --> 00:37:29,579
that is haunted though fearsome is

845
00:37:33,230 --> 00:37:31,079
rather interesting

846
00:37:35,810 --> 00:37:33,240
it gives lots of scope for the ambitious

847
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:35,820
young man we are looking for a mayor who

848
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,760
can and will do things if some strong

849
00:37:44,210 --> 00:37:41,520
person should go into the city hall run

850
00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:44,220
the Unseen influence to Earth stab it

851
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,380
fiercely under the fifth rib and drag it

852
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:48,480
out by its hind legs like Saint George

853
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:51,119
he would make a hero of himself and

854
00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:53,400
stand a good chance for any preferment

855
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:55,560
in sight

856
00:37:59,870 --> 00:37:58,380
but until that time comes we shall just

857
00:38:02,630 --> 00:37:59,880
keep on holding the Commissioners

858
00:38:04,670 --> 00:38:02,640
responsible for all these shortcomings

859
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:04,680
it is hard to make some people believe

860
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:07,079
that ghosts do exist and exert an

861
00:38:11,329 --> 00:38:09,480
influence upon human beings

862
00:38:13,310 --> 00:38:11,339
commissioner Clark's evidence rather

863
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:13,320
shakes the materialist and makes one

864
00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:15,000
believe that there are strange things

865
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:18,300
which men has not thought of Horatio

866
00:38:22,910 --> 00:38:20,040
the citizens hold the Commissioners

867
00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:22,920
responsible when three men battle for

868
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:24,420
three months to hold down certain

869
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:26,700
salaries against some Force they knew

870
00:38:31,210 --> 00:38:28,859
not of and that hidden Force puts them

871
00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:31,220
to Earth stamps its feet upon them

872
00:38:36,530 --> 00:38:34,260
bruises their facts and forces them to

873
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,540
compromise that unseen force is

874
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:38,400
something to reckon with

875
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:40,079
but that is a matter for the

876
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,359
Commissioners and not for the public if

877
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:44,400
there are ghosts in the city hall the

878
00:38:48,349 --> 00:38:45,960
officials should have known about it

879
00:38:50,510 --> 00:38:48,359
before this encounters with the

880
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:50,520
supernatural may be unpleasant but if

881
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,560
that goes with the job and is included

882
00:38:56,990 --> 00:38:54,720
with the paycheck the officials have no

883
00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:57,000
ground for complaint

884
00:39:00,770 --> 00:38:59,160
the public holds these men responsible

885
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:00,780
for the neglect of the isolation

886
00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:03,599
hospital it makes no difference what the

887
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,180
medical health officer said or did he is

888
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,880
not an elected official the public holds

889
00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:10,800
these men guilty for the pavement model

890
00:39:16,010 --> 00:39:13,320
it holds them responsible for the market

891
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:16,020
mix-up it holds them responsible for

892
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:18,240
every mistake in the city council

893
00:39:23,150 --> 00:39:20,400
the idea of a commission is to

894
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:23,160
centralize responsibility if we are not

895
00:39:28,190 --> 00:39:25,500
to hold the commissioner responsible why

896
00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:28,200
have them it is up to them to deal with

897
00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:30,839
their subordinates the public is not

898
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:32,579
concerned with them

899
00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:35,520
well I guess that's one way to justify

900
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,099
unpopular decisions to say a ghost made

901
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:40,740
me do it and an interesting note if you

902
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:43,200
go to the City of Calgary website they

903
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,760
talk about the lore of the city hall

904
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,040
being haunted check out the show notes

905
00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:50,160
if you would like to see for yourself

906
00:39:56,810 --> 00:39:53,339
next we move forward in time to November

907
00:40:00,490 --> 00:39:56,820
24th 1996 with the Vancouver Province

908
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:00,500
Laura shudiak wrote an article titled

909
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:04,680
haunted hostilries BC Alberta have a

910
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:05,880
couple

911
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:08,220
this is a long article so I chose only

912
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:09,900
the part that talked about the Banff

913
00:40:15,170 --> 00:40:12,540
Springs Hotel which is a beautiful hotel

914
00:40:18,109 --> 00:40:15,180
in the Canadian Rockies that was built

915
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:18,119
by the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1888

916
00:40:25,069 --> 00:40:21,839
and is quite close to where I live

917
00:40:27,650 --> 00:40:25,079
there's a story that haunts visitors to

918
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:27,660
the historic Banff Springs Hotel

919
00:40:33,230 --> 00:40:30,000
it was just after the turn of a century

920
00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:33,240
a Young Bride a raid in an elaborate

921
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,460
wedding gown walk down a spiral

922
00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:37,800
staircase to meet well-wishers in a

923
00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:39,240
nearby dining room

924
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:42,060
but on the staircase she came too close

925
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:44,520
to the burning candelabras her gown

926
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:47,099
caught on fire as she struggled to put

927
00:40:51,050 --> 00:40:49,140
out the Flames she fell to her death and

928
00:40:52,849 --> 00:40:51,060
her spirit became a ghost that still

929
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:52,859
wanders the hotel

930
00:40:58,490 --> 00:40:55,680
and just as an aside according to the

931
00:41:00,410 --> 00:40:58,500
Royal Albert Museum in Edmonton it is

932
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:00,420
true that there was an awful fire in

933
00:41:04,990 --> 00:41:03,119
1926 in the hotel and it's true that

934
00:41:08,089 --> 00:41:05,000
many couples do get married at the hotel

935
00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:08,099
however there is no evidence that any

936
00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:11,400
Brides have ever died at the hotel

937
00:41:14,750 --> 00:41:13,020
it's a good story

938
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:14,760
admits Hollywood

939
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:17,280
the director of public relations for the

940
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:18,359
hotel

941
00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:21,599
but I don't put a lot of stock in it you

942
00:41:26,089 --> 00:41:23,640
see the ghost of the poor bride hasn't

943
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:26,099
appeared to many staff or guests Woods

944
00:41:30,109 --> 00:41:27,900
calls it a legend

945
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:30,119
but until this year the stairway she

946
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:32,700
tumbled down has been boarded up that's

947
00:41:37,790 --> 00:41:35,280
because noise from upstairs Disturbed

948
00:41:39,770 --> 00:41:37,800
diners in the Rob Roy room so a floor

949
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,780
was put over the staircase

950
00:41:44,569 --> 00:41:41,760
it could be seen from the dining room

951
00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:44,579
but the steps LED nowhere

952
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:46,680
hmm sounds a bit like the Winchester

953
00:41:54,290 --> 00:41:52,190
now that the cast iron railing is back

954
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,300
in place and the foyer restored to its

955
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:56,160
original Splendor perhaps she will

956
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,280
return to lament her early demise

957
00:42:02,990 --> 00:42:01,680
and if she does she'll join other ghosts

958
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,000
that are said to inhabit the

959
00:42:08,089 --> 00:42:05,040
hundred-year-old Hotel the most famous

960
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:08,099
ghost is that of Sam McCauley a long

961
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:11,520
time Bellman who died in 1969.

962
00:42:15,950 --> 00:42:14,160
he was a great old guy he always said to

963
00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:15,960
the staff that he would come back to

964
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:17,460
make sure that they were doing their

965
00:42:21,890 --> 00:42:20,099
jobs said wood

966
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:21,900
there are many stories of luggage

967
00:42:26,450 --> 00:42:23,520
appearing when it was supposed to be

968
00:42:28,370 --> 00:42:26,460
lost or on busy nights luggage has

969
00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:28,380
miraculously arrived at the Bell desk

970
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,780
when guests are asked who picked it up

971
00:42:34,609 --> 00:42:33,119
they describe an older gentleman that

972
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:34,619
matches Macaulay

973
00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:37,140
Sam's Widow is still alive and lives in

974
00:42:41,630 --> 00:42:39,420
Banff said wood

975
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,640
she was once asked if she thought that

976
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,440
her husband was Haunting the bamf

977
00:42:48,530 --> 00:42:45,660
Springs she said it was a good thing he

978
00:42:51,710 --> 00:42:48,540
was up there instead of at home bugging

979
00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:51,720
her wood hasn't seen or heard Macaulay

980
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:53,640
personally but that doesn't mean she

981
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:56,040
doesn't think the place is haunted just

982
00:43:00,349 --> 00:42:57,599
after she started working at the hotel

983
00:43:02,089 --> 00:43:00,359
she was delivering a guest basket to a

984
00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:02,099
room on the eighth floor

985
00:43:05,450 --> 00:43:04,260
I went to put the key in the door and it

986
00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:05,460
pushed forward

987
00:43:10,490 --> 00:43:08,040
said wood I thought there had to be a

988
00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:10,500
window open but there wasn't nothing

989
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:12,839
happened in the room but I had a very

990
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:16,319
odd sensation what did happen was when I

991
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,680
went to leave the cart was gone I don't

992
00:43:24,770 --> 00:43:21,359
usually put people on the eighth floor

993
00:43:27,050 --> 00:43:24,780
that's my own little superstition

994
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,060
so now lastly I will read from the

995
00:43:34,010 --> 00:43:30,240
Winnipeg Free Press from October 28 2012

996
00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:34,020
where Rosanna Schick wrote our spooky

997
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:36,420
City when ghost children started dancing

998
00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:40,560
by skepticism flew out the window

999
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:42,839
when I was a kid I had an infinite

1000
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:45,300
curiosity for ghost stories I remember

1001
00:43:49,849 --> 00:43:47,220
staying up way past bedtime to watch

1002
00:43:51,770 --> 00:43:49,859
scary movies on TV or read Grimm's ghost

1003
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:51,780
stories by flashlight under the covers

1004
00:43:57,710 --> 00:43:54,480
they gave me goosebumps yet I never felt

1005
00:44:00,170 --> 00:43:57,720
afraid then I became an adult

1006
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,180
these days for whatever reason I tend to

1007
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:02,880
avoid all things spooky horror films in

1008
00:44:08,089 --> 00:44:05,880
the theater no way paranormal shows on

1009
00:44:10,910 --> 00:44:08,099
television forget about it

1010
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:10,920
frightening fiction not a chance

1011
00:44:16,130 --> 00:44:13,619
so I surprised myself recently by going

1012
00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:16,140
to a haunted Excursion Muddy Waters

1013
00:44:20,450 --> 00:44:18,060
tours offers year-round outings that

1014
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:20,460
include three different dark tourism

1015
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:22,260
trips

1016
00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:24,480
deciding it would be fun to be a tourist

1017
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:26,760
in my own City I chose the haunted

1018
00:44:32,030 --> 00:44:29,520
Winnipeg investigates bus tour a

1019
00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:32,040
three-hour adventure for the spirited

1020
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:33,960
personality

1021
00:44:40,190 --> 00:44:37,560
time to get my Ghostbuster on

1022
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:40,200
part of me was definitely skeptical that

1023
00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:42,540
we'd actually encounter ghosts

1024
00:44:47,569 --> 00:44:45,420
as I gathered with 18 strangers at Union

1025
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:47,579
Station listening to host Kristen

1026
00:44:52,849 --> 00:44:49,740
varentrusch explained what we'd be doing

1027
00:44:55,250 --> 00:44:52,859
my skepticism held strong

1028
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,260
our mission was to visit four Winnipeg

1029
00:44:59,569 --> 00:44:57,720
locations suspected of being haunted and

1030
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,579
investigate using basic tools and

1031
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,920
techniques it sounded like an exciting

1032
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:04,319
way to spend an evening since I have a

1033
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,060
secret yearning to be a crime scene

1034
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:08,880
investigator kind of like Dexter but

1035
00:45:14,569 --> 00:45:12,240
minus the serial killer on the side part

1036
00:45:16,609 --> 00:45:14,579
here was my chance to play detective and

1037
00:45:18,109 --> 00:45:16,619
I found myself thrilled by the chance to

1038
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,119
piece together some of our haunted

1039
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,880
history I just hope the ghosts would be

1040
00:45:24,829 --> 00:45:22,319
friendly

1041
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,839
as Faron truce talked about Sensations

1042
00:45:29,329 --> 00:45:27,119
we might feel during the evening like

1043
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,339
dizziness changes in temperature or even

1044
00:45:35,210 --> 00:45:32,160
being touched I also hoped they wouldn't

1045
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:35,220
be too friendly as an aside talk about

1046
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:38,880
priming don't worry we've never had a

1047
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:42,240
ghost follow someone home she joked

1048
00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:44,460
it's good to know because I once had a

1049
00:45:48,650 --> 00:45:46,140
dog follow me home and it ended up

1050
00:45:50,809 --> 00:45:48,660
staying for 16 years I really didn't

1051
00:45:52,990 --> 00:45:50,819
want another pet especially one I

1052
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:53,000
couldn't see

1053
00:45:58,970 --> 00:45:55,260
showed us the tools we'd be using

1054
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:58,980
dowsing rods pendulums and K2 meters

1055
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:01,560
machines that measure electromagnetic

1056
00:46:06,370 --> 00:46:04,020
field activity she also had an array of

1057
00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:06,380
simple kids toys and music on her phone

1058
00:46:12,130 --> 00:46:09,900
my skepticism was still strong but I was

1059
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:12,140
willing to keep an open mind

1060
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,240
hope our brain doesn't fall out be sure

1061
00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:18,000
to take lots and lots of pictures very

1062
00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:20,940
truce advised because that's often how

1063
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:22,920
we see Spirit activity

1064
00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:25,200
our first stop was the Manitoba

1065
00:46:29,150 --> 00:46:27,300
legislature reputed to have a number of

1066
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,160
spirits roaming its hallowed marble

1067
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,720
halls

1068
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,880
we gathered in a circle in the brightly

1069
00:46:37,609 --> 00:46:34,800
lit hallway of the building formally

1070
00:46:40,210 --> 00:46:37,619
opened in 1920 and armed ourselves with

1071
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:40,220
ghost-hunting weapons ER tools

1072
00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:42,480
verintouche handed me the dowsing rods

1073
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:45,240
gave out the K2 meters and pendulum and

1074
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:47,099
placed some toys on the floor then she

1075
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:49,260
started asking questions inquiring which

1076
00:46:53,630 --> 00:46:51,599
Spirits were present when she asked if

1077
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:53,640
the spirit was a woman the lights on the

1078
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:56,640
K2 meter flickered to orange and red

1079
00:47:02,870 --> 00:46:59,700
weird but not enough to convince me yet

1080
00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:02,880
the dowsing rods also started moving but

1081
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:04,440
I really couldn't tell if it was the

1082
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:07,500
lady ghost or my lady nerves

1083
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:10,319
the next stop was Saint Boniface Museum

1084
00:47:16,130 --> 00:47:13,020
built for the gray nuns who arrived in

1085
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,140
the Red River colony in 1844 this is

1086
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:18,900
Winnipeg's oldest building it's also

1087
00:47:23,089 --> 00:47:20,700
downright eerie and with a history

1088
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,099
steeped in sickness death war and

1089
00:47:28,609 --> 00:47:25,440
religion it had to be the ideal location

1090
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:28,619
for reaching out to the other side

1091
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,900
this time we gathered in the darkness

1092
00:47:36,109 --> 00:47:33,359
with only flashlights casting dim light

1093
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:36,119
on our tools as varent truche asked her

1094
00:47:42,530 --> 00:47:40,079
questions the K2 started flickering this

1095
00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:42,540
time we had connected with a child or

1096
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,000
possibly children since little ghosts

1097
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:47,040
apparently Like Music Together We sang

1098
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,440
Frere Jacques they seemed to like it

1099
00:47:54,530 --> 00:47:52,319
somewhat as both the pendulum and K2

1100
00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:54,540
slightly indicated

1101
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:57,780
then something chilling happened Kirsten

1102
00:48:03,410 --> 00:48:00,079
put a children's song called Promenade

1103
00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:03,420
Bois on her speakerphone put it on a

1104
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:04,859
small table in the middle of our Circle

1105
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:07,380
and inform the kids that if they like

1106
00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:10,200
the song they could dance at that moment

1107
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:13,980
the K2 lights went wild I felt a chill

1108
00:48:18,349 --> 00:48:15,780
down my spine

1109
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,359
at that moment all my doubt flew out the

1110
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:21,119
window I truly believed my heart went

1111
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:22,800
out to the Little Ghost children who

1112
00:48:26,329 --> 00:48:24,780
came to dance at our music in the middle

1113
00:48:28,550 --> 00:48:26,339
of the dark Museum

1114
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:28,560
whoever they were and wherever they came

1115
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:31,140
from I hope they found some fun and

1116
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,319
maybe even some peace in our Circle and

1117
00:48:38,740 --> 00:48:37,440
as much as I love kids I also hoped they

1118
00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:38,750
wouldn't follow me home

1119
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,020
[Music]

1120
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:42,720
I'm guessing Kenny Biddle might have an

1121
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:45,700
explanation for how that K2 worked

1122
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:49,920
[Music]

1123
00:48:53,930 --> 00:48:52,260
well that's all for today and if you

1124
00:48:56,650 --> 00:48:53,940
want to spend some time going through

1125
00:48:58,450 --> 00:48:56,660
spooky rabbit holes then check out

1126
00:49:02,109 --> 00:48:58,460
newspaperarchive.com

1127
00:49:05,450 --> 00:49:02,119
newspapers.com and of course

1128
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:05,460
trove.nla.gov dot a u until next time

1129
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:25,370
[Music]

1130
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,410
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1131
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:29,520
Zone podcast this week and thank you

1132
00:49:34,670 --> 00:49:32,460
again as I like to thank people as often

1133
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:34,680
as I can those people who contribute to

1134
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:37,440
the skeptic Zone at patreon or PayPal in

1135
00:49:41,809 --> 00:49:39,660
fact I just got a new uh patreon

1136
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,819
subscriber from Canada

1137
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:43,680
just the other day a big shout out to

1138
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:46,560
you thank you for coming on board

1139
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,560
it's nice to uh it's nice to think that

1140
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:51,359
people all around the world are hearing

1141
00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:53,280
the skeptic Zone and enjoying the

1142
00:49:59,870 --> 00:49:56,760
skeptic Zone even if you are in the

1143
00:50:02,210 --> 00:49:59,880
Wilds of Canada thank you no matter

1144
00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:02,220
where you are around the world thank you

1145
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:04,920
very much for contributing to the

1146
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:07,740
skeptic Zone via patreon or PayPal and

1147
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:11,280
you can do that at skepticzone.tv

1148
00:50:17,930 --> 00:50:14,640
coming up on next week's skeptic Zone

1149
00:50:19,130 --> 00:50:17,940
the Trove segment looks at psychic

1150
00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:19,140
surgery

1151
00:50:26,089 --> 00:50:23,940
and again as a matter of fact again this

1152
00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:26,099
is a report from Canada a Canadian

1153
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:29,880
newspaper the Winnipeg Free Press

1154
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:33,599
and it involves comments from James

1155
00:50:38,410 --> 00:50:36,000
Randy and just before I go don't forget

1156
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:38,420
to check out the skepticon

1157
00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:43,680
2022 website at skepticon.org dot a uh

1158
00:50:48,290 --> 00:50:45,960
Claire klingenberg will be there and a

1159
00:50:51,049 --> 00:50:48,300
host of other International and local

1160
00:50:53,930 --> 00:50:51,059
speakers but for this week this is

1161
00:50:58,510 --> 00:50:53,940
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1162
00:51:05,410 --> 00:51:00,829
you've been listening to the skeptic

1163
00:51:07,690 --> 00:51:05,420
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1164
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:07,700
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1165
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:10,800
contacts and to access the back catalog

1166
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,400
of episodes going back to 2008.

1167
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:16,319
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1168
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:19,920
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1169
00:51:23,569 --> 00:51:22,260
Facebook page or leave a review on

1170
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:23,579
iTunes

1171
00:51:29,089 --> 00:51:25,800
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1172
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:29,099
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1173
00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:32,460
podcast is an independent production the

1174
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:34,200
views and opinions expressed on the

1175
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,240
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1176
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:38,640
of Australian Skeptics or any other

1177
00:51:55,849 --> 00:51:40,680
skeptical organization

1178
00:52:02,089 --> 00:51:59,030
hello to all those people wait is it

1179
00:52:03,470 --> 00:52:02,099
here it is getting my dice machine here

1180
00:52:06,049 --> 00:52:03,480
hello to all those people who listen to

1181
00:52:10,250 --> 00:52:06,059
the end of the show for the dice game

1182
00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:10,260
this week I have a d10 a 10-sided die

1183
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:14,040
it's um it's a black one it's black with

1184
00:52:17,870 --> 00:52:15,440
white

1185
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,880
letters letters numbers what am I

1186
00:52:21,530 --> 00:52:18,720
talking about

1187
00:52:23,930 --> 00:52:21,540
black with white letters where's my

1188
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:23,940
skeptic Zone pen I hear it is so I'm

1189
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:26,880
going to roll this die three times in

1190
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:28,920
the dice rolling machine which sounds

1191
00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:30,180
like that

1192
00:52:35,770 --> 00:52:33,780
thank you Greg duray from California

1193
00:52:39,770 --> 00:52:35,780
and you have to use your psychic

1194
00:52:42,049 --> 00:52:39,780
guessing magic dumb luck powers

1195
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:42,059
and see if you can uh

1196
00:52:45,650 --> 00:52:44,579
match the numbers that come up on the

1197
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:45,660
die

1198
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:47,160
here we go

1199
00:52:51,470 --> 00:52:48,480
rattle rattle

1200
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,480
in the machine and

1201
00:52:59,569 --> 00:52:53,700
seven

1202
00:53:01,010 --> 00:52:59,579
do it again last week Maynard guest two

1203
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,020
numbers out of

1204
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:03,359
three you did very well hello Maynard

1205
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:06,960
okay here we go next number coming up

1206
00:53:13,010 --> 00:53:10,800
five five for Susan go back who loves to

1207
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:13,020
pick the number five whenever she

1208
00:53:20,750 --> 00:53:15,900
listens to the game well then Susan

1209
00:53:23,870 --> 00:53:20,760
and last last throw dry here we go

1210
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:25,790
today's winning numbers

1211
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:27,180
I don't know what you win today's